What to do when your client isn't willing to provide you the design?

I think there is a still a lot of value in customizing something that’s already made, because you have to read and understand other people’s code and also you can pick up valuable information about best practices when you’re reading code of more experienced person - sometimes as a beginner you can be doing some things in one way and not realizing it should be done in completely different way until you read it in somebody else’s code, etc. Anyway, if you prefer to use psd then definitely go ahead, whatever works best for you :slight_smile:
Free templates are for many purposes I guess. Of course you need to make sure that the template is really free and what are the terms of use - sometimes you need to credit the author, etc. I’ve seen many templates that (in my opinion) look as good as custom made designs. Also you will probably need to customize it so maybe in the end it will look nothing like the original - you can swap the colors, pictures to make it fit your client.
I mean don’t use them if you don’t want to but in your situation when you don’t want to pay for designer and cannot design it yourself you probably don’t have many other options. Or maybe checkout Fiverr if you really want to avoid using templates, you can buy there really cheap custom designs.

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@janschreiber His competitors don’t even have a website at all. I basically live in a small, kinda remote village (we both live in the same village). There are 2 other hotels in the village, and both don’t have a website as far as I know. Based on the local websites I’ve seen, it seems like some random person claiming to be able to build a website because they know one or two HTML tags made them.

I’m not certain I can make something superb based on a free template. A web developer friend actually thinks I should do it myself without seeing a designer, because he thinks it will still look better than any website belonging to a local business. Even though I’m not sure he understands the difference between web design and development (calls designers “photoshoppers”) he’s right, unfortunately. Be glad you don’t have to see the websites I’m talking about. They look outdated and use outdated technologies (many of them use decrepated HTML tags), they’re never responsive, they’re literally impossible to navigate due to extremely poor design, and they’re full of ads. Not to mention they also look pretty bad. I just cringe when I see them. I refuse to work this way, to be this unprofessional. I don’t claim to be a designer and never will, but it’s really hard to convince someone living among such unprofessional people that they need a designer.

@Catico Thanks for suggesting Fiverr, it might actually be the solution. I found someone who can make a webpage for $5, so if the client wants 5 pages for example it’ll be only $25. I’ll suggest this to him. Or I could not suggest it and say that I want a small fee as motivation to do the work. Surely he can pay $25-50 (assuming it’ll cost more), and I’ll use this money to buy the services of a designer from Fiverr. I hope he likes, but everyone gets what they pay for I guess. There’s still one thing I’m unsure about, it’s whether designers also provide designs for the mobile version of the website and also different element states (hover, active, clicked… etc).

What do you think of using GIMP to open and work with PSD files? I really don’t wish to pay for Adobe Creative Suite… Anyone has experience with GIMP or similar?

honestly, you’ll get plenty of design and development experience through this curriculum. The client isn’t willing to pay for anything, yet you’re stressing about fees, design, paying for fiverr, etc. You’ll never please the client and you’re potentially hurting your future income by putting up with a high demand client AND spending your own money for it. Butter to stick with a curriculum that’s structured to get you experience that will benefit you, instead of being sidetracked by this project.

@AdventureBear As far as I know, this curriculum doesn’t cover design… You think I may be getting sidetracked by this project? It seemed like an opportunity for a good learning experience at first, I don’t know. Though I wasn’t suggesting spending my own money on it. If he’s unwilling to pay even for a cheap Fiverr design, then I’m not spending a single penny from my own wallet. I’m doing it for free, I don’t have to also spend money on it (when in reality I should be getting paid for it).

So those random persons are your competitors in your local context. In my opinion that means you are pretty much the only one who can give your client what he needs under the circumstances. Go for it!

As long as you clearly communicate to them that you cannot build a perfect hotel website with online booking and all the shebang, your client will still be able to benefit from having a website, because outside visitors will just google (village name) (hotel) and they will most definitely call him and not his competitors. That’s a clear advantage. (At least that’s what I would do as a visitor to the village.)

Browse through these free templates, for example, and try to build something that looks good enough.

no it doesn’t cover design, but it also doesn’t sound like you’ve taken on this project to learn design. I think any side project that’s in line with your current edge of skills is a good opportunity, but your questions give me the impression that you’re overyly concerned about the design aspect of this project, and that’s where I think you’ll be getting side tracked.

The FCC curriculum gives you the experience of allowing you to infuse your own design elements based on sample projects to copy (which is what you’d be doing if the client provided a design or hired a designer).

@AdventureBear I’m concerned about the design aspect because I don’t wish to have to do extra work I lack the skills for first of all, and second because I want it to look professional. It’s just something I can’t help, when I do something for someone, it’s like I’m doing it for myself, and I wouldn’t want to receive something of low quality (in this case a website that works and functions well but doesn’t look professional). He doesn’t understand the importance of hiring a designer if he wants it to attract guests (which is what he wants), and so far I haven’t been very successful in explaining to him why he needs a professional designer. That’s why I considered hiring a designer on his behalf provided he will pay for it, but he doesn’t seem willing to pay even one penny. My first mistake was offering to do it for free. He would have had to pay thousands otherwise.

@janschreiber I suppose you’re right, he’ll still be able to benefit from having a website at all. I would have still appreciated it if I had a design I could work with though.

Thanks for the templates link. Do you suggest that I just copy the code and change it or create something similar from scratch?

Yeah, I get that…and you should be concerned about it for that reason.

I get the impression your client is either not concerned or not knowledgible and your efforts so far are not helping him see your side.

That’s why i feel like you’re spending too much energy on it. You’re not overly concerned because you’re misdirected, you’re overly concerned because you should not have to take on a client and bear the burden of his project which he is not willing to support.

But in rereading your original post…what to do if the client won’t provide a design, if you want to follow through on it, just choose a template or have him choose from a selection adn carry on.

I’ll be honest I haven’t the whole thread but I’d say don’t do it.

From the look of it there is a huge discrepancy between your commitment to it and the client’s.

You’re already on the losing side : you are ready to question everything, the quality of your work, whether the client will be satisfied, and the fact that you don’t really know whether to do it or not… I think it shows that deep down you might know it’s not a good idea.

Also without any clear request from the client, you’ll never know if you’ve hit the right spot and if you have, the client might not acknowledge it.

I don’t have any experience in that field but I do when it comes to being freelance, potentially underpayable (because you’re young, because you don’t dare you can charge for your time and work, etc).

Hi Amir,

I would ask him if he has a design style in mind. Maybe a website or two that he thinks looks really nice. One of the things you’ll run into when you start dealing with customers, especially if their knowledge level is different than yours, is that their definitions are not your definitions.

Going through this course for example, I’ll bet if someone says they are looking for a site that is built with the most “up to date” technologies, you’ll start thinking about Node, React, Angular or something like that. If you ask him what he means, he might say something that sounds ridiculous to you like:

“I see a like of sites have, like, animation, and social media stuff like a Facebook and twitter button.”

A little animation is a layup for you! Social Media buttons? Sometimes what seems boring to you once you learned it feels like magic to a customer. One time, my mom told me her computer was broken because all the words she was typing were lining up to the right side of the screen. She seriously was about to buy a new copy of Word!

Don’t overthink the design part, most people aren’t looking for unique and original, so “inspiring” yourself with a template is a good idea, especially if you can get the client to show you what sort of sites he already likes.

Good luck!

Usually they do provide mobile version and hover states, but be sure to discuss it with the designer upfront.

I personally don’t like to use GIMP for psd files. From my experience when opening Photoshop psd files in GIMP there are many discrepancies like missing layers, pictures, etc. If you are looking for a program just to open and view psd, get the information about the layers for css and extract assets and you don’t need to manipulate the layers or create new designs I recommend either Assets Adobe where you can upload psd files and view them online, it’s free - you just need to set up adobe account or Avocode which is much cheaper than Photoshop and they have free 14 days trial.

I don’t know how this thread has got so long. He wants you to work for the experience, refuses to pay a designer and insists you do it all and it must look like a nice design too. This is gonna be a nightmare for you. He doesn’t want to pay because he doesn’t value your work or he wants as much as possible for nothing. You gonna let him milk you like a cow?

Ditch him.

If you want to do some free work to gain experience and confidence, look up some local charities with awful websites and offer your time to them. They will appreciate it.

If you don’t know where to start with the design, go and look at some Wordpress themes for the industry and copy what they do.

But please ditch this “client”

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@MARKJ78 No I won’t let him milk me like a cow. I will tell him that I’ve changed my mind about doing it for free, and I would like compensation for my time at least. If he refuses, then it’s for the better. This conversation is going to be embarrassing and the fact that I’m a shy person won’t make it any easier, but I must make it clear that I have skills that he needs (well still in the process of learning them, but still), and nobody’s time is for free, so he has to pay for them, and I think this is my right. Then I’ll use a part of this money to contract the design work to a designer with the proper skills. I’ll use the cheaper Fiverr option mentioned earlier if I have to, but I don’t want to get into the design aspect lacking the skills for it and risk him not liking it, thus wasting my time.

Regarding the charity idea, first of all it’s going to be hard finding a local one living in a small and remote town, so my search will have to be a bit wider. Second, it will still be the same problem. They surely wouldn’t be willing to pay for a designer, and then what do I do in this case?