Based on what I’ve read in this thread so far, it doesn’t sound like you’re a prime candidate for a bootcamp. And that’s because you’ve clearly built the skills required for a junior developer, which means you’re ready to be hired, which means there’s a company or team out there that could use your skills and you’re only having trouble finding them. A bootcamp’s just going to teach you more things, not how to find that company.
I think all of us have been on that hopeless job search so I don’t want to layer you with more platitudes about not giving up or networking or whatever. But I do want to emphasize that you have a set of skills that can solve problems, and your goal is to find those people who need problems solved by adding a developer like you to their team. So I would make your job search very company centric, ask a ton of questions about what stack they’re using, what projects their working on, what their pain points are, what they’re hoping to achieve by bringing someone else on, etc. and use those answers to sell yourself. That is, tell them how your knowledge, skills, and experience would actually solve those problems. Don’t just prattle off rehearsed lines about the stuff you’ve learned, that’s literally every developer out there and usually doesn’t help a company decide on what to do with you.
Do that, and you may begin to see your luck change. Recruiters are usually just checking off boxes and they see you as just another number, not an actual human being with goals and aspirations so I wouldn’t focus too much on using them. Focus relentlessly on what a company is struggling with, make your goal to find every possible pain point out there of every company you contact with as efficiently as possible, ask a million questions, show genuine interest in their products or customer base or growth projections, and never, ever bring it back to you and what your problems are, i.e. I need a job. I think that change in approach might yield some results. For more information on how this worked for me, feel free to DM me.
I would steer clear of bootcamps. From my research, they offer very poor value for money. Why pay $1000s of dollars for an education you can get online for free or at most a few hundred dollars?
I worked in education for a long time before I became a developer, and I recognise a cram school when I see one. That’s all they are: overpriced cram schools that hold out the hope of a lucrative career to justify their sky-high prices. In any case, its clear from your portfolio that you already have a really solid foundation. You probably know > 75% of the average bootcamp curriculum already.
If you want to spend some money, their are paid resources online which are totally worth the money. For under $30 a month, you can get access to top class professional resources that will be much better than a bootcamp for a fraction of the price.
I’d just keep along the path you are already walking. But get deeper. Keep challenging yourself to learn new stuff. Keep working on the portfolio. And keep polishing your job hunting skills.
However, I would say this. I think it’s hard to learn coding and do a job search at the same time. It’s better to keep learning until you are sure you are over the line, then jump into the job search feet first.
I’d say that’s maybe a bit general of a take on bootcamps and perhaps there is some nuance that’s not considered.
Full disclosure, I am a bootcamp graduate although the bootcamp I attended was atypical. I happened to attend one where there was no upfront cost and one that actively find client contracts to place their graduates. The cost is I have to work 2 years at a depressed salary and I have no choice where I work in those 2 years. According to the company, it is actually more lucrative than charging me tuition.
I was determined to do this on my own. I was going back to school for CS, working part-time min-wage jobs, and working on Coursera and FCC curriculums. The truth is if I was left alone, I’d have probably mentally drowned in this swirl of uncertainty and pressure while I desperately tried to deal with life. It’d have taken me more time to learn, to job hunt, and I had to do it while constantly doubting if I am doing the right thing, presuming I would not have just given up.
I needed help, and bootcamp was the help I needed. I needed peers, not just online peer, but peers that I can socially interact. I needed the accountability it reinforces. I needed the structure and I needed their insight with the industry. I needed it to be hire-worthy. Not everyone needs this, but not everyone can just spend a couple hundred buck online and train themselves to be a job worthy developer, neither.
It does take a certain level of will and mental fortitude to do it all on your own, the learning, the preparation, the constant rejection, and doubt. Some people perhaps cannot do that, but they still have the potential to be a good developer. Hats off to you if you can, but it’s not the end if you need help.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to offer their input. I think what it comes down to is that bootcamps definitely have a place in our society but it’s not for everyone. As some have already stated, bootcamps are great for the in-person interaction, structured path and mentoring. Those are all very valuable things to have, especially for those who need structure in their learning. There is nothing wrong with that, everyone absorbs information differently. For those who know themselves and know they need that extra push and guidance, all the more power to you.
I think based on what has been said so far, I’ve decided that a bootcamp isn’t worth it for me personally based on my progress so far. It may suck having to deal with the doubt of multiple rejections and such. But it is alleviated somewhat by having a great community in places like here in the FCC forums. Seriously, all of you guys have been super helpful and it makes me feel good to be around such encouraging people. So again, thank you to all.
UPDATE: Looks like in the past week, I’ve received a couple responses back from jobs I applied for. One wants to set up an interview and the other wants me to do a technical code challenge. We’ll see what happens, but it’s progress nonetheless.
Let us know how it goes! Do as many algorithms as posssible and dont forget data structures! Also, study their stack and how they work as well. If the company works with React, study how react works, how the virtual dom works.
I like your portfolio and it seems you also have a great attitude, I’d say at this point it’s probably just a matter of time and luck. But to rely less on luck and more on your skills, I would advise you to build more complex projects because the projects on your portfolio are fairly simple. Do you know Node.js? Challenge yourself and build a fullstack app with MERN stack implementing CRUD operations and logging, that would make you stand out. You can even use of your old projects and turn it into a fullstack app, that would save you some time.
I’m on the same boat here, but I stopped the job hunting to take time to learn Node.js and build at least 2 projects as the one I just mentioned. I was building my first fullstack app but recently I received an unexpected code challenge and I had to stop my side projects, let’s see how it goes, but if it ends up nowhere I am going to keep doing what I was doing not let that rejection to let me down.
Thanks for your feedback. I do have a basic understanding of Node.js. I built a couple very simple microservices with it, but that’s it so far. I’ve actually been focusing on learning Node more deeply so I can build some fullstack apps. You have a good point that my projects so far are fairly simple. But I do intend to change that soon.
I think that boot camps are a waste of time. You actually learn code by building stuff. That takes time. The fastest way to learn is to come up with ideas or projects that you can add to your portfolio items. I learned a lot through Udemy. The courses that you should use are the ones that are “Project Based”.
That means at the end you will have a finished project to add to your portfolio at the end. Here is a course that I have not personally take yet but it’s on my list. It’s called " The Complete Web Development Course - Build 15 Projects" and is a project-based course.
Finish this and you have 15 things to add to your portfolio and only costs about $10. There are tons of other courses here that are good. I enjoyed “The Web Developer Bootcamp” when I first started. Just a great all around course.
But to come back to your question, I think boot camps are a waste in general because they are taught in to short of a time period. I think that the stuff I mentioned before is that best and fastest route to really learn. Also, you can take the new stuff you learn and goe back and tweak your portfolio items to make them better.
That gives you real world experience in updating things and that’s good experince for the working world.
Thanks for your reply. You are definitely in good company in your opinion. I think a big problem with bootcamps is also one in traditional colleges in that they get more expensive over time. On top of the fact that bootcamps cram everything in 4-6 months makes it even more risky. I still think they are great for some people but definitely not for everyone.
Yes, Udemy courses are excellent and are also where I get most of my learning from. The 2 courses you mentioned are ones I also enrolled in. But I have only finished “The Web Developer Bootcamp” by Colt Steele, I haven’t finished the other one. It seems that if you combine a couple of those courses, you’d get the same if not more skills that you would learn in a bootcamp anyways, but at the mere cost of $20-$30. But man, it does require a lot of discipline on your own to be consistent in learning. That’s something that I had to struggle with a lot.
Regarding those course projects, I’ve always been hesitant to add them on to my portfolio because it feels like cheating. I’m basically just coding along with the instructor. I always feel like if I didn’t come up with my own idea and build it completely on my own then I shouldn’t add it on my portfolio. But I guess you are right in that I can make my own tweaks to it so that it’s more personal to me.
There are definitely cheaper ways to go about learning. I have a couple of tips for you about Udemy. Put the courses that you are going to want on your wish list and also put them in your cart. Leave them there and after a while you will start getting deals sent to you on them specifically.
I have gotten some of the more expensive courses for $10 that way. I have never paid more than $15 on anything there.
You shouldn’t feel weird about putting up those projects on your portfolio. There is NO DEVELOPER OUT THERE that does everything from scratch and if you did everything from scratch it would take you to long, and you’d get fired.
It’s like writing a paper. Cite IN YOUR CODE with comments if it is necessary. Mostly what developers do is find something that is similar to what they want to do. Then go and change all the ID’s, Class Names, etc., make it more efficient by organizing and recoding some of it, and then it’s your own. That’s how working professionals do it.
As you learn new things, go back and update your projects. The more you do that the more it really is your own code. If you still feel that is too close to “plagiarizing”, fins something that works like what you want to do, study their code and see how they did it, and then rewrite their idea in a more efficient manner. Make the colors better, make sure everything is totally accessible, etc.
I guess when you put it that way, it makes sense. Developers always collaborate on the job and use each other’s code. I think I’m still in a “school” mindset where using someone else’s code that I didn’t write is cheating. lol. Now that you mentioned it, there are a couple projects on those courses that I wanted to make my own version on my portfolio.
Actually you don’t have to wait for Udemy courses to go on sale. You can just google Udemy coupons and they have countless sites that give coupon codes to make almost any course on there $10.
This is great advice, and I can echo that networking is definitely the way to go about getting a dev job. I’m in the process of making a transition to full-time coding from my current non-tech job, and it’s difficult!
I decided to do-away with sending copies of my resume into “the black hole.” Instead, I’ve attempted to get out of my comfort zone and actually reach out to people to see if they’re interested in grabbing coffee, or a beer.
If I would add anything, it would be:
when asked, be honest about your skill-level and what you’re trying to achieve
ask others about their projects and why they’re passionate about them
seek to build a relationship instead of simply using the other person as a stepping-stone (@vaidotasp 's first point)
I’ve been absolutely amazed at how helpful developers are and how excited they get for others to succeed.
Disclaimer: I went to a bootcamp. But Im not going to be biased about it, I promise My goal going into bootcamp was to learn employable skills, cause I felt like though I had skills under my belt, I was missing something to get to the point where I could get a job, but had no idea what that thing was. The other goal I had was to get involved in my local dev community, network and hopefully have that lead to opportunities.
On one hand, thats a lot of money to spend on networking…on the other hand, it worked out well for me, beyond my wildest dreams…so even though, on reflection, I could have taught myself what I learned at bootcamp for free, being an alumni and access to everyone who has ever attended my bootcamp, as well as the relationship I still maintain with my cohort and instructors…thats solid and has led to opportunities I really would not have had otherwise.
Having said that, there are other ways to build up a network…oh, btw, the reason Im big on networking is because that is how you’ll get a job. Its one thing to submit your resume…a whole other ballpark when someone in the company says to the hiring manager, someone I know would be excellent for this position. A personal referral guarantees your resume will be looked at, and that recommendation will tip the scale in your favor…without a doubt.
So yeah, get involved in local meetups, make a point to go to as many tech events as possible. Talk to people, add them all on your LinkedIn, touch bases and reach out. Something Im totally delighted with in this industry is that people genuinely want to help… I think your portfolio and projects look great (btw, I have some full-stack projects in my portfolio, but people seem super impressed with my FCC projects I have that I made when I was just starting out learning JS…do not feel like they arent enough!!) what you probably need is a solid network to get you connected to jobs.
Cost isn’t always the investment you put up front. If an individual is not making good on those 10 to 15 dollars course he or she bought, if he or she is not making meaningful gain in a reasonable timeframe and add to his or her job search progress, then every moment spent is a moment lost where he or she could be earning a steady paycheck, specifically a software developer’s paycheck.
The difference between a bootcamp tuition and say generously 1000 dollars spent on online resources can catch up quickly if your career is stuck on launch for 18 months or more. I earn quadruple of what I earned as a minimal salary worker, so if I had gotten a job a year later, I’d have lost 40k+ of potential earning in those 12 months as well as the benefits that come with the job.
It is fair to question whether bootcamp actually accelerate one’s career because it really varies depending on the bootcamp and individual. Although the general premise is to get a job 180 days post-graduation, some people just cannot. It is, however, also fair for a person to evaluate his or her self honestly on whether they can really become job ready on their own in an acceptable timeframe.
You can get most things a bootcamp provides on your own. Some things are harder to replicate than others, like the opportunities to network with companies in a more intimate setting where expectations are mutually understood, general career counseling (disclaimer, not all bootcamps offer these), or really just an opportunity to work with other in an organized fashion. You have to accept that it will likely take more work, discipline, and most importantly time.
A dedicated and driven individual can probably succeed no matter the path, although the math and variables are probably slightly more complicated than simply the difference in tuition and paid online resources.
I think your points are absolutely valid. People that can’t learn enough through the “10 to 15 dollars courses” by being able to commit themselves to actually doing and completing them is a big deal. But if they are having that kind of a difficulty, they are missing a massively important component of being a good employee anyway.
You made a good point about investing in a boot camp. If I was going to do a boot camp, I would only go with one that offered career support and job placement help after the person completed the boot camp. That would really be the only way that I could see it might be worth it.
It totally depends on the person. I just don’t think that a person that cannot commit themselves to completing online courses will not do well in a boot camp. And in relation to that, are missing a fundamental skill that all employees should have.
Your project look great and beautiful. I hope you get hire. If you want easy road, you could apply for consulting company like revature. They always hiring people to work for their client. It a good way to get experience. You could also go to Angel site to find a startup and work for them.
I am just that person actually. I needed the help, and bootcamp was what I needed. I just had my first performance review and it was tremendously positive.
People and life can be complicated. For various reasons, people can impeded themselves, whether it is internal like insecurity, depression, anxiety or it is external like work and family obligations, unforseen circumstances. People prioritize differently dependent on their circumstances. It overwhelms you sometimes. If you don’t have a good support structure around you, you could fall into a cycle that you struggle to break.
Trust me, I want to be that person that work a full time job to pay the bills, have family, friends, and a life, and still managed to get a developer job in 8-12 month armed with nothing but things he learned from cheap online resources and projects he built by himself. Who doesn’t, that guy sounds awesome.
Alas I am a guy that needed to put his life on hold and be devoted to an immersive environment to achieve the same result. Maybe that denotes a certain character flaw within me, but it has not been anything that prevents me from being a good employee.
@cndragn thanks for sharing your experience. The networking and alumi would be very valuable for sure. It sounds like you went to a really solid bootcamp with tons of networking value at the end. While I likely wouldn’t a lot of learning material that I don’t already know, the connections would really be the only thing of value I would get from a bootcamp at this point. For me, I think having that initial big network of instructors and fellow graduates would be hugely beneficial to me considering networking is not my strong point.
Thanks for your positive input on my portfolio. It really helped relieve some doubts I had as to whether the FCC projects were good enough for potential employers. But I am also currently working on learning Node.js and building some fullstack projects too. I think you are right though, that I need to probably focus less on applications and more on networking.
