Ok. That’s a refreshing perspective. Thanks.
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Hi!
So small backstory: I’m in the US. I started learning JavaScript back in May 2018 while working full time as a help desk tech at a university. I have 80% of an associates degree in mechanical engineering but it didn’t come up in most interviews.
I started my dev job 2 months ago. College wasn’t a conversation. Most of my coworkers have degrees in something. So far it’s been the best job experience I’ve ever had. I think it has a lot to do with the person in general, but the horror stories I’ve heard usually leave out details about the dev. Maybe they weren’t asking enough questions, not admitting when they didn’t know something, and/or weren’t good culture fits.
When I was interviewing for a job prior to the one I have now, they brought up my college experience but in the end I made it through all three rounds and got an offer based on personal character traits:
- ability to learn quickly
- proof that you have aptitude for coding
- ability to communicate clearly and work in a team setting
- not too prideful
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. I think it has a lot to do with the person in general, but the horror stories I’ve heard usually leave out details l about the dev. Maybe they weren’t asking enough questions, not admitting when they didn’t know something, and/or weren’t good culture fits.
I beg to differ here. I’ve had multiple companies straight out reject my cv before the interview stage. Because I didn’t have a degree.
I’m not saying that doesn’t happen. It’s surely happened to me. But not getting to the interview round isn’t a horror story . What I’m referring to, and what I thought you were referring to, are situations where developers without degrees are hired and then fired for not performing. I should have clarified 
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Ok, well that is another kind of situation.
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It absolutely is! I hope I answered your question though. I believe it was “Self taught devs who found jobs, what happened afterwards”, no? I’m not sure I buy into the notion that after your first couple of jobs, you all of a sudden become un-hireable because of lack of a degree. Your experience is valuable. There will always be companies willing to hire devs without degrees. That’s likely the situation for most freeCodeCampers. Just don’t quit applying and you’ll eventually find a job (assuming you’re doing everything else right).
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Well, I did plan on saving up enough money to eventually go back and get a degree.
I honestly want to improve my skill in JavaScript. Kindly advice me what to do and what resource can help me achieve it. Currently I used w3schools.com and freecodecanp.com
@dollariyke A solid understanding about the language goes a long way. After all, writing code at work is the easiest part. Thinking (algorithmic way), connecting (i.e. - engineering) everything together is where fun and hard work starts, at least for me. So go ahead and enjoy your readings of Kyle Simpson’s ‘You Don’t Know JavaScript’ series, you won’t regret. I also find this as a great supplement for those books. Aside from JS, I’d argue that learning HTTP is more important than anything else.
To complement my original post:
Another interesting thing happened while working, it is that I see that I actually need and want to learn CS for my own benefit. I wasn’t studying math, it was a pain for me, so I’m picking it up now, really enjoying it because it’s not that hard anymore maybe because programming improved my logic abilities or something, I don’t know. So, this may be completely different for someone but I am so happy that I see that CS would be an absolutely logical and beneficial addition to my skill set. So this is also what happened afterwards I got my job.
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You explained it very well, I have realised the same thing while implementing my learnings in C and Python into actual projects. Now am also focusing on learning Math alongside so as to improve the process of solving a problem in a logical andalgorithmic way. 
Khan academy is a good source to brush up Math in my opinion.
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This kind of attitude is the extreme. Gatekeepers are limiting themselves by never considering self-taught talent. College does not equal intelligence or ability in any way. If you have a solid portfolio and can prove your skills out then this alone should be the litmus test employers reach for. HR and recruiters seem to do most of the gatekeeping and there are ways around them by talking directly to the businesses hiring. It is usually cheaper for them to hire you directly anyway and skip the recruiter who takes a big chunk of your salary off the top.
The ones who reject you out of hand for not having a degree are losing out on some very determined, hard working, creative, self actualized people. See this as a limit to them not you. Life is my university and I learn things every day as a developer.
Embrace the growth mindset and never stop learning. Show this passion to all your potential employers, stay humble, be confident and code everyday.
Hi @dollariyke,
I just started to read and work through a very good book about learning Javascript: Head First Javascript Programming.
I love it!! And I used to dislike Javascript, because somehow it didn’t stick into my memory and I kept learning the same concepts over and over again.
And now I’m slowly working my way through a book with a pencil at hand. The authors encourage you to write in the book. I don’t usually write in books, but they are right, it’s just a good way to learn stuff and memorise it at the same time.
So I’m reading and writing Javascript, doing quizzes, filling out crosswords and so on. Building small projects is also part of the learning process, although I hardly used my computer so far. It sort of feels a bit like learning in primary school, but it works.
The authors explain all kinds of details about Javascript and that helps a lot. The language starts to come to life, literally as this book has actual interviews with Javascript as if it’s a person, which sounds silly I know, but it’s fun and also just another way to put the basics into your long term memory.
I think books like this one are a very good starting point to learn the language. Afterwards I’ll go back to the lessons on FCC to practice. Hopefully with a very solid foundation.
Very good book, indeed. I really like the Head First books. N.b. though, it doesn’t cover ES6/ES7.
Also in addition, might I suggest https://coggle.it/diagram/Wmlo7f8LdQABzvcW/t/roadmap-learn-modern-javascript-with-udacity
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Degree or no show? I honestly haven’t ever heard of this from my sister who was a senior tech manager at a large investment bank. Even at companies that are strict on cs degrees, like in the government, there was bended rules for vets and others who have proven themselves via experience.
A degree is a formality, something that lays down groundwork. But beyond that, real world experience trumps anything from the University, sans MIT, etc.
I also wouldn’t go back to school after getting a dev job unless you a) want to learn something only the degree can teach you, b) want a degree to feel validation
I would say your best bet is to look at Dev job adverts directly from the hiring companies, rather than going through a consultancy. I’ve only just started learning myself (looking to switch careers) but the majority of job adverts I’ve seen for a Junior/Mid-level developer ask for either a Degree or relevant experience. I don’t think I’ve seen one yet that won’t consider people without a degree. This is in the UK.
It’s also good to see what kind of technologies companies are working with before you apply. I don’t know how much information a consultancy would give you on the kind of placements they’re trying to put you on, but you could find yourself being expected to work in languages you’ve never seen before. Every job advert I’ve seen so far has included a list of languages/packages the specific company works with. So again, I would go direct.
If you have a good portfolio and can demonstrate a good understanding of all the things they’re looking for then you shouldn’t need a very expensive bit of paper. As others have said, anyone who won’t consider self-taught devs are cutting out a large number of potential applicants who could be just as skilled as those who have gone through the formal education route. It would be madness.
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Honestly, my feeling on this is that a lot of people these days have a feeling of entitlement just because they’ve paid money for and completed a course or have worked a job.
Software development is hard work. You either continually learn, update your skills and dive deeper into languages, frameworks etc or you lose out on a job because someone else was willing to do that when you weren’t.
You can use a degree as a scapegoat for not landing a job, but the truth is that either you are pushing yourself and becoming a better dev over time, or you are coasting and becoming outdated.
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This is a really good point too, the industry is always changing, you could even argue that being self-taught would give you an edge over some people with a degree, as you’ll already have the skill-set to learn independently, and bags of experience doing so.
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you could even argue that being self-taught would give you an edge over some people with a degree, as you’ll already have the skill-set to learn independently, and bags of experience doing so.
Absolutely! Being self-taught can be hugely beneficial, not only do you usually have a really good story of breaking out of whatever you were doing before, but it shows a great amount of initiative, determination and persistence.
It’s a personal thing that I want to get the degree.
Of course. I understand but in lieu of this thread success does come without college degrees. I just wanted to emphasize that for anyone who feels like an outcast.